Curse

hydrak · Jul 19, 2005, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksci

Hey all. I started a thread about an hour ago asking how much charging monks charge for their services, seeing as their aren't that many monks in the later missions (Accension). What i didn't expect was the amount of critism I got. So after 3 pages of skim reading i finally got some useful comments. But an interesting idea popped up in that wee head of mine.

In some parts of the world, going to hospital is free (volunteers)
And in other parts of the world, going to hospital will cost you.
Yet people accept going to a hospital which charges, since they have the money. One could argue that a being a doctor is a profession and takes years of learning. Well the same goes for being a monk, getting to level 20 takes some time, and has a learning curve as well to be a good monk.

Of course when real doctor's charge, most people wouldn't want to goto the super health care plan which costs an arm and a leg. Most average joes will just go for the simple effective one with piece and mind. Paracetamol is Paracetamol after all.

But anyway, when i say charging i mean just average in this case.

Now we know that charging monks do have their free brother alternative. Alesia and Lina. They are fine, and most people will use them. But if given the chance, most people will use a real monk, but as i've seen in the later mission the number of monks are quite low. So here's an example where I would, given the chance, choose to advertise my services.

There are also those monks which are good, and those which are rubbish. Lets consider now that all those charging will be GOOD monks.

So. Whats your opinion? And why?

(Please if your AGAINST THIS. Just say it, in a proper manner, nothing like "U suck")

All truely devoted monk players don't charge anything. Same thing goes for other classes: you won't see a warrior asking for gold to tank for the group, or an elementalist charging gold to be a nuker for the group.

The monks who charge for their services belong to the class of MORONIC GW players. It's unfortunate that these morons only play monks, thus giving the other monks a bad name.

kleps · Jul 19, 2005, 04:31 PM // 16:31

i wont pay for any monks or anyone rushing me through missions. i can simply do quests/missions just as easily with PUGs, which may take a few tries at the harder missions, or with henchies, easier unless your PUG is organized.

Aniewiel · Jul 19, 2005, 04:34 PM // 16:34

I am categorically against monks or any other character getting "paid to play" or for running others to places low-level characters shouldn't be. HOWEVER....I also realize that there's a market out there for them. Sad to say but true, right?

I would NOT pay for a monk. My monk char would NEVER charge but if someone's going to turn a buck on it, I guess they'll do it regardless of my opinion.

Ferelle · Jul 19, 2005, 04:35 PM // 16:35

It's a rather rediculous idea in my opinion. But, then again it really provides me
with a great way to filter out the jerkwad monks. Most the folks with this
mentality I find that I'd rather not group with anyway. Hell, you can do nearly
all missions (if not all) with Henchmen just as easily if not more so.

On another note, so why can't the other classes charge the monks for
tanking, killing and pulling for monks? Should the monk be charged whenever
people die? Can they be docked their "pay" for bad attitude and customer
service? This is a game, not some 9-5 job. Give me a break.

I'm a monk and if I end up in a group catering to another player by paying
them to do what their class does, I'll leave and you can cough up even more
money for another asshat monk.Chances are, the groups offering to pay
monks for "services" are crappy ones anyhow. I'm betting the monks doing
this and actually being paid are sittting behind their computers laughing their
asses off. I would be.

The people offering to pay other players or bending to this kind of greed are
just as bad in my opinion and I'd just as well avoid those people too. Don't
offer me money, I'm not a prostitute.

Borealis · Jul 19, 2005, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

I'm not ASSUMING anything....90% of the monks in this game are awful and I'd rather heal myself....so PROVE to me you are a good monk...BEFORE you ask for my money.

Thats the kind of statement that makes a monk want to charge or to piss on that invite you just sent to them. I'll just assume I'm in that 90% so, thanks alot....and for the rest of the 90%, we appreciate that comment....

Algren Cole · Jul 19, 2005, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksci

I'm not asking for your money.
I'm asking a straight forward question.
If a monk was GOOD, and he charged for his service, (oh and lets say he already proved he was a good monk by i dunno, doing the previous mission with you) would you pay for his service? YES/NO ?

No...I'd just assume the role of healer instead of ranger for the group.

Xonic · Jul 19, 2005, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by kleps

i wont pay for any monks or anyone rushing me through missions. i can simply do quests/missions just as easily with PUGs, which may take a few tries at the harder missions, or with henchies, easier unless your PUG is organized.

I've reached many towns with henchmen where full groups of well geared (or so they claim) people can't reach. it's about skills.

Good players > henchmen > bad players

Algren Cole · Jul 19, 2005, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borealis

Thats the kind of statement that makes a monk want to charge or to piss on that invite you just sent to them. I'll just assume I'm in that 90% so, thanks alot....and for the rest of the 90%, we appreciate that comment....

you can take that statement and replace monk with any class you'd like...90% of the people that play this game are awful.

noblepaladin · Jul 19, 2005, 04:38 PM // 16:38

The teamwork aspect of it makes the system highly unstable. First of all, there is no way to determine whether the Monk is a scammer or whether is good or not. Secondly, a team that hires a Monk expects miracles and expects that they can charge in blindly without worrying about death. No monk can heal 7 people fast enough. A good group wouldn't need to hire a Monk, in fact good groups can adapt their skills so that they can complete any mission without a Monk at all. This leads to alot of finger pointing and blaming = VERY VERY BAD situation.

moonshadow · Jul 19, 2005, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

Some people get so upset when they learn some monks charge for services. To that I say have fun waiting around for a monk for 30 minutes, only to get killed because the one you found (or healer henchie) sucks and you end up doing the mission 12 times. Be smart about it. I've done both, charged for services and paid for them (with other characters). I think it was Thirsty River where I kept gettting newb monk after newb monk (with looong waits inbetween searching for monks) until I heard someone saying they were very experienced and would help for 1k. Sure its a risk that he could be horrible too, but it turned out that he wasn't and we completed the mission. So, my point is, don't get upset when you see monks selling services because it's a legit service that can save lots of time and frustration. And if you do get upset and feel the need to message something, no worries, I'll be perfectly content knowing you'll be messaging 'Group LF Monk for last spot' for an hour only to fail the mission again.

I think (most) everyone agrees monks are valuable...and a real person monk would be preferable to the "henchie" monks. My point is, and a couple of others have voiced this opinion as well, is that EVERYONE is valuable on a team! It's the attitude that I disagree with. The attitude that one person is somehow more valuable to the team than the others. It's the same attitude that causes people to drop from a party in the middle of a quest once they get what they want...because they don't consider themselves part of a team, they're just there to serve their own selfish needs. A monk who charges is no different from a merc or henchie who doesn't care if they're part of a team, they just want to get paid for doing a job. It certainly doesn't fit in with the concept of a monk to me...but I enjoy the roleplaying aspect of the game...not just using the game as a vehicle to get more pretend money so I can get more pretend stuff.

Teufel Eldritch · Jul 19, 2005, 04:45 PM // 16:45

I will never pay anyone to go on a mission be they Monk, Ranger, Warrior or whatever. NEVER. Anyone that does accept payment will never knowingly be invited into my groups. I will never join a group that has purchased the services of another player.

Damon Windwalker · Jul 19, 2005, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aniewiel

I am categorically against monks or any other character getting "paid to play" or for running others to places low-level characters shouldn't be.(

As am I. But what about basically hiring out to be a henchie?

Aniewiel · Jul 19, 2005, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damon Windwalker

As am I. But what about basically hiring out to be a henchie?

That, Damon, is a good question! If the market...i.e. the players...are willing to pay for it, go for it. -I- won't do it but I won't sneer at others who do.

theclam · Jul 19, 2005, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teufel Eldritch

I will never pay anyone to go on a mission be they Monk, Ranger, Warrior or whatever. NEVER. Anyone that does accept payment will never knowingly be invited into my groups. I will never join a group that has purchased the services of another player.

I feel the same way. In addition, I would never charge for my services. I'm playing because I find it fun, not because I'll get rich.

Darksci · Jul 19, 2005, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by noblepaladin

The teamwork aspect of it makes the system highly unstable. First of all, there is no way to determine whether the Monk is a scammer or whether is good or not. Secondly, a team that hires a Monk expects miracles and expects that they can charge in blindly without worrying about death. No monk can heal 7 people fast enough. A good group wouldn't need to hire a Monk, in fact good groups can adapt their skills so that they can complete any mission without a Monk at all. This leads to alot of finger pointing and blaming = VERY VERY BAD situation.

Well suppose that monk was in a previous mission with you.
Or suppose that the monk was going to prove his worth by saying he'll only charge half way through. That way the rest of the players can see whether the monk is good or bad.

BTW comparing this to a runner. This is exactly the same.
A runner asks for money after a certain point (usually half the amount stated)

I guess i'll ammend my first post to include this - so as not to confuse people.

Stev0 · Jul 19, 2005, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksci

Hey all. I started a thread about an hour ago asking how much charging monks charge for their services, seeing as their aren't that many monks in the later missions (Accension). What i didn't expect was the amount of critism I got. So after 3 pages of skim reading i finally got some useful comments. But an interesting idea popped up in that wee head of mine.

In some parts of the world, going to hospital is free (volunteers)
And in other parts of the world, going to hospital will cost you.
Yet people accept going to a hospital which charges, since they have the money. One could argue that a being a doctor is a profession and takes years of learning. Well the same goes for being a monk, getting to level 20 takes some time, and has a learning curve as well to be a good monk.

Of course when real doctor's charge, most people wouldn't want to goto the super health care plan which costs an arm and a leg. Most average joes will just go for the simple effective one with piece and mind. Paracetamol is Paracetamol after all.

But anyway, when i say charging i mean just average in this case.

Now we know that charging monks do have their free brother alternative. Alesia and Lina. They are fine, and most people will use them. But if given the chance, most people will use a real monk, but as i've seen in the later mission the number of monks are quite low. So here's an example where I would, given the chance, choose to advertise my services.

There are also those monks which are good, and those which are rubbish. Lets consider now that all those charging will be GOOD monks.

So. Whats your opinion? And why?

(Please if your AGAINST THIS. Just say it, in a proper manner, nothing like "U suck")

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stev0

Don't compare this with real life because you can't.

It's wholey unreasonable for one class to benefit monetarily for efforts that should be provided normally. In real life if you don't have cash you die.

In this game every class gives in their own way. Without Warriors to block heavy hitters the lighter armored players would get stomped. Without Rangers the group would be picked off tactically by unreachable opponents. Without Mesmers incoming heavey hitting spells would always get through. Without Elementalists you would be missing the heavy artillery pounding on creatures in groups and getting through the defences Rangers and Warriors cannot. Without Necros you cannot gain the benefits of the fallen to swell your ranks and weigh down strong enemies and finally; Without Monks to help prop up the wounded and provide defensive aid to the group. Remove anyone of those ESTABLISHED positions in the party and the whole thing comes down like a house of cards.

Should anyone gain more than another? No. If people give freely for good play then yes go ahead give a reward to a fellow player that does a superb job. Asking for cash for something that comes naturally is ridiculous because a Monk is NOTHING without the rest of the party.

Taken from the other thread.

Sure I guess I can apply to real life what I say above.

A Doctor can cure and charge for it. But then should'nt the person who provides his security? The person who cleans/maintains/keeps up the hospitol? The person who provides him with food? The person who provides him with shelter/upkeep? The person who sells him other goods and services?

Everyone gets paid or no one gets paid. That all there is to it and I don't see anyone getting anything for free.

So when I adventure. Anyone that adventures with me gets support from me because I expect it from them. I expect everyone in the group to do their part. I expect someone with the most knowledge and shows the most trust to take charge. I expect the group to work together. Your survival is your payment, everything beyond that is a bonus.

Osangar · Jul 19, 2005, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksci

I'm speaking of a hypthetical situation. ASSUME that the monk who's charging is a Good monk, and won't quit, and won't scam.

Yes I have monk...no you dont charge stuff to do your job. Should the tank then start demanding money off of you each time he takes a mob off your back? Ranger each time he drops winter so you can kill in the last mission faster? Ele each time he nukes something to oblivion. What the hell, you started a monk to be a group player to help people out and to heal. Why the hell would you charge someone something? You want to charge money I'd recommend people to take a hench over you, I don't care how good you are.

Kershent · Jul 19, 2005, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Why would you actually charge money? You get a cut of the loot.

Everyone does realize that you're paying henchies, right? They get loot drops like everyone else. So why would I pay someone, when they'll get payed just by being in the group?

Not to mention it's very sleazy to do this sort of thing. You're taking advantage of people who are desperate for healers. Pretty lame.

Drakenbow · Jul 19, 2005, 06:33 PM // 18:33

You make an excellent point Kershent... This is precisely the reason I disagree with paying. Although, as I mentioned before... I might pay someone extra gold to help me out if I feel it was worth it, but it's a long shot.

Halmyr · Jul 19, 2005, 06:42 PM // 18:42

I think its because monks are overrated. there are not enof and its one of the only class that can substain its self alone, foe example a group of 6 monk could survive alone, but 6 war no, they depend on the monk, necro would have a bit of a hard time( they have blood but its enrgie cost grows fast). Ele, unless they kill fast, spike group type thing, there dead. same for mesmer. as for ranger, they all must carry troll regen. Not only that but monk can also deal nice dmg whit smiting. thing like shield of jugment hurt alot. I say we would have to make the monk more dpendate of other clas. aka warriors to defend them. because even a good monk can tank, even if the war should do it. heck Y dont I become a monk a heal ppl. all you do is sit back and make sure ppl dont die simple, yes, unless the situation gets ugly.